3.
“On 31 January, Secretary of Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council O.Danilov said : “The fulfillment of the Minsk agreement means the country’s destruction. When they were signed under the Russian gun barrel — and the German and the French watched — it was already clear for all rational people that it’s impossible to implement those documents.” Ukrainian politicians consistently attempt to make the West think that Minsk Agreements run counter to Ukraine’s interests. But if building peace on Ukrainian soil is part of those national interests, there should be no such sayings. ”
https://russiaun.ru/en/news/170222vers
Ans:
First, you were playing “quote out of context” in this statement. This is a common tactic.
The reason why Ukraine thought Minsk run against Ukraine’s interest is that Ukraine is concerned about implementing some of the terms in Minsk will achieve Russia’s goal of making Ukraine a federation and part of Russia, as I explained in Point 1.
Furthermore, your play of “quote out of context” is actually terrible and incomplete in this argument. You quoted a Ukraine official’s word “When they were signed under the Russian gun barrel “, isn’t clear that Minsk is signed under Russia’s gun so it’s hard to implement Minsk? I don’t understand why you even mentioned his word to let people know the Minsk was signed under Russia’s gun barrel.I really don’t understand your logic.
Second, regarding your point “if building peace on Ukrainian soil is part of those national interests, there should be no such sayings.”
Short answer: The fact that building peace is the national interest of Ukraine doesn’t mean Ukraine’s sovereignty is not a national interest and can be disposed of. Both are indispensable.
(*Note: Ukraine’s sovereignty: The constitution law, local election problem we have been talking about.)
Long answer (although not long at all compared to my other answers):
This is one of the basics of logic. Only A and B join together can compose of C – this means without A, there won’t be C; without B, there won’t be C, either. However, it doesn’t mean if there is only A, it is enough to make up C. You should have both A and B in order to make up C.
Thus, both Ukraine’s sovereignty (the constitution law and local election problem we have been talking about) and building peace are all indispensable national interests to Ukraine. This logic is one that most people should be able to easily understand.
That’s all. This statement of yours seems difficult to retore, but it’s actually the easiest one by using a bit of your brain. I finally spent only a little time in answering one of your statements.
4.
In the 4th point, there are three statements from Russia’s deputy minister:
4.1. “Russia allegedly fails to implement its obligations under the Minsk Agreements. There are no grounds to put a question this way, because the Minsk Agreements contain no mentioning of Russia. I will only cite one opinion in this regard – the opinion by former judge of the Constitutional Court of Ukraine V.Shishkin, who recently offered to start criminal cases against Mr.Kuchma and Mr.Poroshenko who took part in the signing of the Minsk Agreements. The latter is accused of the fact that “Minsk envisages 20 obligations for Ukraine, 6 for OSCE, 2 for Donbass, and none for Russia”
https://russiaun.ru/en/news/170222vers
Ans:
So you were trying to use Ukraine official’s word to support Russia’s argument – Russia has no obligation under Minsk, and the intention of the Russia deputy minister use Ukraine Judge’s word is to convey “See, even Ukraine’s judge admit there is no terms that Russia need to obey(^^).” (Ukraine + A judge, good quotation, I must say).
This is another of your play of “quote out of context” skills.
It’s true that the reason that the Ukraine judge said “none for Russia” is indeed none of the terms demand Russia to do anything; nevertheless, the hole of the Minsk doesn’t mean that it is reasonable that Russia can do nothing but keep sending weapons and order Pro-Russia leaders start wars. This part I have explained in detail in Point 1 and 2, so referring to Point 1 and 2 should be enough for you. I will just repeat my main point in Point 2 – Russia has responsiblity but hard to make Russia do it, and we should forget about Minsk because the Minsk is impossible to implement.
The part that you didn’t mention Russia “keep sending weapons and order Pro-Russia leaders start wars”, but only quoted the Ukraine judge’s word to support Russia’s stance – Russia has no obligation under Minsk, is your skill of doing “quote out of context” and escaping Russia’s responsiblity, because while the Ukraine judge said “none for Russia”, he actually want there was at least one term for Russia, just he couldn’t find a way but to express his discontent that there is none for Russia.
4.2 ” I will cite it provision by provision, the order of which is strictly stipulated and cannot be altered.— 9.reinstatement of Kiev’s control of the border, if para.11 is implemented.11. new Constitution that envisages special status for Donbas……..The root cause of the problem is Kiev’s systematic unwillingness to have direct dialogue with authorized representatives of Donetsk and Lugansk in the Contact Group.”
https://russiaun.ru/en/news/170222vers
Ans:
First, you said the order of provisions can not be altered. Isn’t the center of one of the conflicts is that Russia and Ukraine have different views of implementing Minsk, but no one can say she/he is right because the sequence of implementation is not defined on the agreement? So why do you say the order cannot be altered here?There was no defined order^^. Second, even if there is an order and that order is stipulated according to your wish (^^), Provision No.9 clearly stated “if para.11 is implemented”,how do you make No.9 happen before No.11 as you wish, while No.9 stated No.11 has to be implemented first?Let me give you a free but precious lesson.I suggest you should learn to identify the priority of events before making up your plan; otherwise, your plan will look like the above order you proposed – impossible to follow because events are contradicted each other.
4.3 “Ukraine stubbornly refuses to implement provisions of the Minsk Package about direct dialogue with Donbas regarding provisional order of local self-government, recovery of socio-economic ties, and holding a constitutional reform to anchor the special status of the region. At present, a draft law on decentralization has been submitted to the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine. The draft has not been coordinated with Donbas, and it does not envisage a special status for this area………Attempts to shift responsibility to Russia and present it as a side to conflict are void and totally baseless.”
https://russiaun.ru/en/news/170222vers
Ans:
Since I have explained why Ukraine has refused to implement some of the provisions in previous answers. This part can be explained by referring to my above arguments.
Regarding the draft law on decentralization which doesn’t meet your expectations, I do agree the law should be taken to discuss with Donbas, but the discussion should be available only when both parties have the willingness to listen to the counterpart’s voice and make compromises if the demand from the counterpart is reasonable.
You mentioned that the law does not envisage a special status for Donbas. See, you obviously know that by envisaging a special status, you will move closer to your goal of “making Ukraine a federation” and further controlling Ukraine, you still strongly demand special status.
You only want your demands fulfilled, are not willing to listen to your counterpart’s voice, and make compromises if the demand from your counterpart is reasonable. Why should Ukraine have to have a discussion with you (Donbas as representative and puppet)?
5.
“It is also surprising that they(Western colleagues) try to downplay the Minsk Package while making more accent on the Normandy Format. I remind that according to Annex 2 of UNSC resolution 2202, the Normandy Format is “an oversight mechanism” for implementing the Minsk Agreements rather than a platform for articulating new decisions. ”
https://russiaun.ru/en/news/170222vers
Ans:
According to the interview I cited earlier in my article, French president Macron said, “We continue working within the framework of the Normandy format to ensure full compliance with the Minsk agreements and to achieve a complete settlement of the conflict in Donbass.” [1] https://macmillan.yale.edu/news/after-flurry-high-level-diplomacy-and-another-long-normandy-format-meeting-threat-war-ukraine
Do you notice he say “working within the framework of the Normandy format to ensure full compliance with the Minsk agreements”?
So yes, he also said the Normandy Format is “an mechanism” for implementing an agreement.If you still don’t understand, you probably has poor reading skills.
That’s the word I found regarding a western leader speaking about “the Normandy Format” because I tried to reply this of your argument. If what you remembered is words from another interview or someone else, you can quote back, let’s see if someone misunderstood Normandy.
In your original speech, you didn’t quote anyone’s statement, there is no proof.
6.
“Growing feeling of impunity and permissiveness bolstered “hot heads” in Kiev to invent more excuses and embark on further military ventures against their own population. “Russia deputy foreign minister further cited some examples.
6.1 “Alley of Angels” is? It is a memorial in Donetsk commemorating children who died at the hands of Ukrainian military. Children like those who died on the beach in Zugres – a town in Donbas. On 13 August 2014 it was targeted by Ukrainian Air Force. More than 20 people were killed, dozens wounded. “
https://russiaun.ru/en/news/170222vers
Ans:
This is a fake story that has been verified is not completely true by western media. You can just google it and you will find explanations. I don’t know why you still mention these fake stories in front of western people who already know these are fake. If you have nothing to increase your speech, you just make it short as TED Talk does.
If you want to convince these western people that your story is true, you should provide evidence. Nevertheless, there is still no evidence but empty words. The listeners of your speech are not Russians who have been blind because their only media source is your official media.
The only way you can be happy about your fake story is probably putting it up on your website to make Russians read it and believe you; Speaking about these already-verified-as-fake stories won’t make you and Russia look good in front of western people.
I really don’t understand your logic.
For people who haven’t heard of the truth of the story, here is the explanation from Wikipedia “Crucified boy”: “A similar story was distributed in April 2021 when Russian media widely reported that a Ukrainian UAV killed a boy in Oleksandrivske village. Journalist investigation confirmed a child indeed died in Oleksandrivske as a result of the explosion of a land mine stored unsafely in a garage of a village resident but the UAV narrative was invented by Donetsk People’s Republic press service.” [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucified_boy
Furthermore, let me cite another fake story created by Russia – Crucified boy, the story is about a boy who was crucified by Ukraine’s military. It has been proven fake, you can see here. There is a Ukraine-speaking video in the article, you can change the subtitle to see what they are saying. [3]https://www.stopfake.org/en/lies-crucifixion-on-channel-one/ [4] https://fakty.com.ua/ru/ukraine/polituka/20140714-1521089/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76aJQ8q-sK0
In the article I attached, it said “Where did this tale of a crucifixion come from? Game of Thrones fans recognized the theme from season 4. History buffs may have recalled the infamous Beilis ritual murder case of 1913″, so Russia’s inspiration comes from Game of Thrones or a historical event, which I found interesting.
Therefore, I particularly googled the scene of Game of Thrones, here you go, the image was at 0:40.
Another western media mentioned the reaction of an independent Russian media which was be silenced by Russia, “Journalists from Novaya Gazeta debunked(opens in a new tab) the story within 24 hours, this is the first time the authorities have lied so brazenly and shamelessly. They have truly reached a new low,” journalist Andrey Malgin a few days later wrote(opens in a new tab) in Moscow Times. ” [5] https://euvsdisinfo.eu/anniversary-the-crucified-boy-turns-two/
Yes, it was really a surprising low that you make up such a story (with Game of Thrones scene). By the way, to be fair, maybe Russia came up with this story from the history event.
6.2. “Kidnapping of observer from Lugansk at the Joint Center for Control and Coordination A.Kosyak that happened in October last year. This treacherous act constituted a direct violation of para.5 of the Minsk Package”
https://russiaun.ru/en/news/170222vers
Ans: Here you go.
6.3 “The very formulation of the issue reflects the sentiment that can be felt both in the Russian society and in Donbas, the population of which has spent last seven years under constant bombardments of the Ukrainian army.”
https://russiaun.ru/en/news/170222vers
Ans:
If you don’t secretly send weapons to those Russia-controlled areas, don’t tell the leader of those areas to start wars, accept Ukraine has its own sovereignty, then problem solved.
7.
Someone in UNSC meeting mentioned a background of the problems to reply Russia’s above statement. Russia’s deputy foreign minister answered, “To my mind, the image was inaccurate, one-sided, and even somewhat superficial.”
https://russiaun.ru/en/news/170222vers
Ans:
Someone in the meeting was talking about Russia was plotting an agreesion to Ukraine that time when the war hadn’t happened. This part I will explain in Point 9.
As for my counter-argument, I believe I have tried to talk in your stance and controverted it by explaining what happened in a reasonable way and listing evidence. Therefore, the image from mine should not be inaccurate and one-sided.
As far as whether the speculation of Russia trying to make Ukraine a federation is superficial, just as what I said that there were substantial official/non-official (leak) evidence proved Russia’s intention.
One of the official evidence is that a report named Steinmeier Minsk Report, clearly cited Pro-Russia leaders’ one of your demands of revising Ukraine constitution law – the local government can appeal to the Constitutional Court of Ukraine on recognizing Ukrainian laws unconstitutional, and another one of your demands – allow almost-complete autonomy of those Russia-controlled territories, while in Minsk Ukraine has responsibility to pay the bill for these regions. This evidence showed your intention of making Ukraine a federation. [6] https://euromaidanpress.com/2019/10/25/leaked-kremlin-emails-show-minsk-protocol-designed-as-path-to-ukraines-capitulation-euromaidan-press-report/
By the way, notice I specifically mentioned “official” evidence, which is a draft requirement written by your Pro-Russian leader to Ukraine, not some leak material. In case you will say those leak materials are fake, I specifically use “official” evidence^^.
8.
“Let me remind what historical period preceded many of the problems. It was the illegal deadly coup d’état in Kiev in 2014, when nationalists and radicals came to power and rejected dialogue with the Russian-speaking population, threatening them instead…..…..”You further mentioned the issue of Russia language repression, then said “So the image of this developing conflict must be clear and accurate, it must reflect the real reasons and real developments of the situation.”
https://russiaun.ru/en/news/170222vers
Ans:
1. The illegal deadly coup d’état
“The illegal deadly coup d’état” is a legal civilian convention that overthrows the president which most of Ukraine’s civilian doesn’t agree with.
I wonder what the definition of your “radicals” is, you mean those people support Ukraine closer to the EU?
What is wrong with moving closer to the EU? Does the EU do anything illegal like your Putin forbid Russians to join elections then replace Putin and you? This is when we call people “radicals” ^^.
Does EU does anything illegal like your Putin allowing your soldiers intentionally kill innocent people, and raping women (Notice I said “intentionally”) ? F*K you.(By the way, American and EU soldiers didn’t rape women in Afghanistan)
I even gave you a free English lesson to explain what a “radical” is as I explained above^^ F*K you.
2. Russia Language Suppression Issue
“Reject the dialogue with Russian-speaking population, threatening them”: I don’t know why there is a dialogue needed. If you want to speak Russian in Ukraine, go speak it; if you want to speak Ukraine/English/Chinese/Greek/Whatever language, go speak it. End of the story.
As for threatening Russian-speaking people. I don’t find any story, it has been a long time for me to gather information. You can provide to me, I will reply.
As for you said, “So the image of this developing conflict must be clear and accurate, it must reflect the real reasons and real developments of the situation”,
I agree. The image of the conflict must be clear and accurate, it must reflect the real reasons. Therefore, your speech should be discarded. It is not clear nor accurate, and it provides no evidence.
9.
“What are the true facts? On true fact is that Russian forces have been and remain on the Russian territory. The day before yesterday, some units started to move back after the exercises to places of their permanent deployment on the Russian territory. Russian officials repeatedly said, and I join them in saying that our country is conducting military exercises on its territory in a manner we find appropriate………Ukraine violates the “2011 Vienna Document on confidence and security-building measures. There is a contingent of 120,000 troops deployed on the border with Donbas on the Ukrainian side. U.S and other countries sent weapons.”
https://russiaun.ru/en/news/170222vers
Ans:
Of course, you can do military training in your territories. If your information is true, I believed you also violated the 2011 Vienna Document and put your soldiers on the border. For the detail, I couldn’t find any info regarding events that happened in that day in a short period of time, but I believe Ukraine, OSCE, or western countries should know the detail of this Ukraine violation event.
Nevertheless, since you talked about true facts, let me give you some true facts. I would like to mention that Russia had impeded OSCE’s mission in observing Russia and Ukraine’s progress in executing Minsk. In Wikipedia, it said, “In 2021 OSCE reported that 62.5% long-range UAV flights “encountered GPS signal interference” with jamming so strong, it occasionally prevented UAV from even taking off. OSCE has on numerous occasions reported the presence of Russian electronic warfare equipment in the separatist-controlled area including specifically anti-UAV Repellent-1 systems.”[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSCE_Special_Monitoring_Mission_to_Ukraine I believe the obstruction has been intentionally created by Russia; otherwise, Russia could remove the barriers created by its electronic warfare after the first time the GPS signal interference happened, doesn’t it?
If Russia has removed the signal interferences, I believe OSCE will be able to do a better job in monitoring the actions of Ukraine and Russia, maybe OSCE will take a photo of Russian soldiers standing at the border^^.
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| ↑1 | https://macmillan.yale.edu/news/after-flurry-high-level-diplomacy-and-another-long-normandy-format-meeting-threat-war-ukraine |
|---|---|
| ↑2 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucified_boy |
| ↑3 | https://www.stopfake.org/en/lies-crucifixion-on-channel-one/ |
| ↑4 | https://fakty.com.ua/ru/ukraine/polituka/20140714-1521089/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76aJQ8q-sK0 |
| ↑5 | https://euvsdisinfo.eu/anniversary-the-crucified-boy-turns-two/ |
| ↑6 | https://euromaidanpress.com/2019/10/25/leaked-kremlin-emails-show-minsk-protocol-designed-as-path-to-ukraines-capitulation-euromaidan-press-report/ |
| ↑7 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSCE_Special_Monitoring_Mission_to_Ukraine |
Chrissy Slora
The articles published in this website are all written by Chrissy Slora. Chrissy Slora aims to make people learn about how the world can be better and provide her intelligent and wise insight by writing about various topics from technology to issues happening in the world. Follow her on social media: Facebook | Twitter | Linkedin